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Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| Leo Strauss, On Tyranny wrote: | | According to Voegelin, it was Machiavelli, as distinguished from the classics, who "achieved the theoretical creation of a concept of rulership in the post-constitutional situation," and this achievement was due to the influence on Machiavelli of the Biblical tradition. He refers especially to Machiavelli's remark about the "armed prophets" (Prina VI). The difficulty to which Voegelin's contention is exposed is indicated by these two facts: he speaks on the one hand of "the apocalyptic [hence thoroughly non-classical] aspects of the 'armed prophet' in the Prince," whereas on the other hand he says that Machiavelli claimed "for [the] paternity" of the "armed prophet" "besides Romulus, Moses and Theseus, precisely the Xenophontic Cyrus." This amounts to an admission that certainly Machiavelli himself was not aware of any non-classical implication of his notion of "armed prophets." There is nothing unclassical about Romulus, Theseus, and Xenophon's Cyrus. It is true that Machiavelli adds Moses; but, after having made his bow to the Biblical interpretation of Moses, he speaks of Moses in exactly the same manner in which every classical political philosopher would have spoken of him; Moses was one of the greatest legislators or founders (fondatori: Discorsi I 9) who ever lived. When reading Voegelin's statement on this subject, one receives the impression that in speaking of armed prophets, Machiavelli put the emphasis on "prophets" as distinguished from nonprophetic rulers like Cyrus, for example. But Machiavelli puts the emphasis not on "prophets," but on "armed." He opposes the armed prophets, among whom he counts Cyrus, Romulus, and Theseus as well as Moses, to unarmed prophets like Savonarola. He states the lesson which he intends to convey with remarkable candor: "All armed prophets succeed and the unarmed ones come to ruin." |
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Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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EXPLOSIVE Evidence Cont'd.
World Trade Center -- Twin Towers
9: Experts Agree
[Roland Angle, P.E., Civil Engineer] And our whole society is being led to believe that these fundamental laws of physics, hard science, don't apply anymore. I think that should really frighten all of us.
[Jonathan Smolens, P.E., Structural Engineer] Just all the other evidence of seeing flashes, and explosions, and the melted metal, and the dust particles, with the explosive chemicals found in the debris -- there's just a lot of questions about what's been going on. And that these questions have not been answered or even addressed in any sort of full way.
[Rick Fowlkes, P.E., Civil/Structural Engineer] My name is Rick Fowlkes. I'm a structural engineer with over 40 years experience in engineering. I'm the president of my own engineering business here in Arizona since 1983. Prior to that, I was a vice president with prominent engineering firms in the Phoenix area. I have experience designing large structures, including power plant structures, shopping center structures, schools, commercial buildings -- you name it. I know structural design, and I know that on September 11th, when I saw those Twin Towers coming down, I knew there had to be more to the story than just a fire causing those failures. It had to be a controlled demolition that we were witnessing. The government has lied to us, and we need to get to the truth. Those victims deserve the truth. They deserve justice. What we have right now is a travesty of justice.
[Anthony Szamboti, B.S.M.E., Mechanical Engineer] The Freedom of Information Act request to NIST by a registered structural engineer for calculations and analysis substantiating the walk-off failures of the horizontal girders from their seats at column 79 and 81, was denied by NIST with the claim that releasing this data "might jeopardize public safety." How could it possibly jeopardize public safety to tell people in the industry, engineers who are responsible for designing these buildings, how this failure could occur?
[Ronald Brookman, S.E., Structural Engineer] That implies that anybody who requests or demands these calculations, is a threat to public safety.
[Lynn Margulis, Ph.D., Professor, University of MA] Science is never secret when it's done right. Science is a way of finding out that is self-correcting, and involves many people. Science isn't science unless it's published, unless it's openly published and made available for criticism. The thing that's most important about science is that it's a way of knowing. And it's a way of knowing that anyone can participate in. At the end of any kind of science activity, people will agree that they have collected evidence that illustrates a hypothesis. And if the evidence is contradictory to the hypothesis, one has to abandon that hypothesis and look for another one.
[Joel Miller, High-Rise Architect] The explanations from FEMA and from NIST don't add up. But there is enormous circumstantial evidence, circumstantial and actually physical evidence as well, that would lead us to a different conclusion. And the conclusion is controlled demolition.
[Richard Humenn, P.E., Original WTC Chief Electrical Design Engineer] It was a shame that after the collapse, that a forensic engineering unit didn't go into the debris and try to find at that time why the towers had collapsed. I'm sure there was other evidence that could have given a better indication at the time that there was something else wrong.
[David Chandler, M.S., B.S. Physics, M.A. Education, M.S. Mathematics] Any honest investigator will be looking at this, and looking for explosives and so forth. The NIST investigation didn't go there. They just would not look for explosives. There have been explosives found in the dust, in the debris, but this has been the work of independent researchers, not NIST.
[Jerry Lobdill, B.S.Ch.E., Physicist/Chemical Engineer] And the physical chemistry of everything that I wrote about is consistent with no other hypothesis. And all the testimony of eyewitnesses, all of the video evidence, supports only controlled demolition as the cause of all three World Trade Center buildings' destruction.
[David Gregg, Ph.D., Chemical Engineer] You don't have to be a chemical engineer to question the official story. It's very, very obvious. Both Building Seven and the Towers were brought down by demolition. There couldn't have been any other possible way.
[Roland Angle, P.E., Civil Engineer] That conclusion I come to based upon, first of all, my training and my education, but particularly my experience in blowing up major structures that had been designed to withstand blasts. The experience that I had gained in the military and as an engineer, was irrefutable that those buildings were brought down by explosives.
[Lynn Margulis, Ph.D., Professor, University of MA] So the pre-conceived notion of NIST is that there is no evidence for explosives, and so there's no point in looking. That is the most unscientific thing that you can possibly think of, not to look because you don't expect to find evidence. And in fact, the evidence is overwhelming. They state these conclusions for which there is virtually no evidence, and then they ignore conclusions that could be drawn from the evidence.
[Steve Luce, Former U.S. Army Combat Engineer, Explosive Demolition of Structures] It is my opinion, as a former 12 Bravo Combat Engineer, well-trained in the use of explosives, that this building, all three buildings, were brought down as a result of controlled demolition.
[Richard Humenn, P.E., Original WTC Chief Electrical Design Engineer] Elevator company personnel had 24/7 access to the shaft switches, the normal time, in the evening or early morning hours when they perform their maintenance. And of course, their access to the elevator shafts gave them total access to the surrounding core columns, the interior of the core columns.
[David Chandler, M.S., B.S. Physics, M.A. Education, M.S. Mathematics] It took some kind of consciousness-raising on my part before I was willing to look at the possibilities. And really, you need to go where the evidence leads.
[Dr. Robert Bowman, Lt. Col. USAF, Ret., Director -- Advanced Space Programs Development Ford, Carter Administrations] We know we've been lied to about 9/11. We don't know for sure who did it. We don't know exactly how they did everything. And that's why we need a new investigation to find out. But in the meantime, there are things we do know. We do know that there was a massive cover-up, that there was evidence hidden and destroyed. |
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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EXPLOSIVE Evidence Cont'd.
World Trade Center -- Twin Towers
10: The Next Logical Step
[Richard Gage, AIA] And given these conclusions, what remedy do these professionals recommend?
[Niels Harrit, Ph.D. Chemistry, Associate Professor Emeritus, University of Copenhagen] The three skyscrapers were taken down in controlled demolition, and all we are asking for is a new investigation, and that NIST also will investigate the dust for remaining explosives.
[Erik Lawyer, Firefighter] At Firefighters for 9/11 Truth, what we're asking for is we're asking for an investigation that follows national standards.
[Jody Gibbs, licensed for general building, heavy construction and architecture, Harvard Graduate School of Design, Yale Graduate School of Art & Architecture, Adjunct Faculty at MIT Graduate School of Architecture] I'm Jody Gibbs. I was licensed for general building and heavy construction as well as architecture over 35 years ago. I was educated at Yale University, the Harvard Graduate School of Design, the Yale Graduate School of Art and Architecture, and I taught at MIT as an adjunct faculty for a number of years in the Graduate School of Architecture. My reasons for looking, and demanding, and in urging people to see that we get a judicial investigation, are really very simple: no high rise steel structure has ever been destroyed by a fire in the history of construction. We have eyewitness testimony of firemen, policemen, news reporters, and occupants of the buildings to explosions -- an enormous number of eyewitness testimony. Fourth, the buildings fall at a speed which can only occur if the vertical structure has been removed. We also now have the evidence of thermite and thermate explosives. Most of these things were not even mentioned in the 9/11 Commission Report. It's for this reason that I urge all architects and engineers to look into the matter, look at the evidence that is available, and sign on to the demands of Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth in demanding that we get a judicial investigation.
[Robert E. McCoy, High-Rise Architect] I signed the petition for Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth because I felt it was an organization trying to get at the truth of what in fact actually happened, what brought those buildings down. So what I'm looking for is a new investigation where all of the original information and tests and hypotheses are reexamined, as well as the ones that have surfaced since -- the new ones -- including the allegations of controlled demolition.
[Leslie Young, High-Rise Architect] I don't think any of us are pointing fingers at this time. We're just saying, let's reopen it; let's look at it objectively; let's look at the evidence -- not these fabricated computer models, and hearsay, and all these predetermined conclusions. Let's really open it up again, and investigate this thing properly. And then come to conclusions.
[Steven Dusterwald, P.E., Structural Engineer] In my 37 years of experience as a structural engineer, I've never seen modes of failure such as have been exhibited in the case of these buildings. And that's why I feel we need a new independent investigation to explain the destruction of these three buildings.
[Scott Grainger, P.E., Forensic Fire Protection Engineer] I strongly support an independent investigation into what actually occurred. There are many problems. And in fact, as a forensic engineer, I can tell you that unfortunately the government has destroyed much of the evidence, though we could do an appropriate investigation, and an investigation could be done that would be independent of the government, independent of all the influences that were obviously in effect during the NIST investigation.
[Casey Pfieffer, S.E., Structural Engineer] Based on the evidence available, I feel that we must demand a new investigation into the destruction of the World Trade Center towers and NIST itself.
[David Topete, S.E., Structural Engineer] We need to have an investigation of NIST themselves. I believe that the reports that came out are not true. I believe that there was a lot of information that was omitted blatantly or otherwise.
[Richard Humenn, P.E., Original WTC Chief Electrical Design Engineer] I strongly feel that an international commission should be formed to look at this matter in an unbiased manner, and come to a conclusion that could be presented to the entire engineering community.
[Roland Angle, P.E., Civil Engineer] We have a professional responsibility, and I urge every engineer, and architect, and demolitions expert, and anybody who has any knowledge in this field, to examine the evidence, and stand up and be counted, because the rest of the world is depending upon us.
[David Chandler, M.S., B.S. Physics, M.A. Education, M.S. Mathematics] I would like to see a real investigation. I'd like to see people on the inside, who really know what happened. I'd like to see some of those come out. There are some very good scientists, I'm sure at NIST, and their life's work is getting distorted and used for political purposes.
[Steve Luce, Former U.S. Army Combat Engineer, Explosive Demolition of Structures] What happened on 9/11 is not something that is just going to go away. This is very pertinent to us today. I wish to further the investigation, and I want to make a difference, because I want this to be a safe and better place for my children.
[Leslie Young, High-Rise Architect] I signed the petition on the Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth website mainly because I wanted to stand behind the families that lost people on 9/11. The 9/11 Truth Movement was started by the families that lost loved ones on that day. And they were all out there alone, screaming for help, and our own country was ignoring them, ignoring their needs, and not taking care of them the way we should have after that happened.
[Rick Fowlkes, P.E., Civil/Structural Engineer] We have not been told the truth. We deserve the truth, and so do the victims.
[Leslie Young, High-Rise Architect] We need to come together again as a country. I believe that this one event split our country in half. And the only way we are going to come back together is to reopen the wound, and talk about this in an open dialogue. |
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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EXPLOSIVE Evidence Cont'd.
Seeking Understanding
9/11: Coming to Terms
[Richard Gage, AIA] Most of us who have lived with the events of 9/11 have, as a result, experienced some kind of trauma. It can be very difficult to come to terms with what actually happened at the World Trade Center. In fact, someone told me recently, "I wouldn't believe what you're telling me even if it were true." Our petition-signers with psychological expertise have stepped forward to offer their insight. While this segment is clearly outside the knowledge-base of the Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth, these experts in psychology highlight their valuable experience for us as to why this evidence can still be so difficult for people to accept.
[Marti Hopper, Ph.D., Licensed Clinical Psychologist] At this point, we have 9 years of hard scientific evidence that disproves the government theory about what happened on September 11th, and yet people continue to be either oblivious to the fact that this information exists, or completely resistant to looking at this information. So the question becomes "Why? Why is it that people have so much trouble hearing this information?" From my work, I think we would be remiss not to look at the impact of trauma. My name is Marti Hopper, and I'm a Ph.D. Clinical Psychologist. I've been working and living for the past 30 years here in Boulder, Colorado. For the past 11 years, my work has focused on helping people who have experienced personal trauma. Now as we know, the horrors of what happened on 9/11 were televised all over the world, and they were televised, in fact, live. We witnessed the deaths of almost 3,000 of our fellow Americans. We know this had a very severe and traumatic impact on a large majority of the population. I myself cried for weeks after September 11th. A friend of mine, who is a psychologist in practice here in Boulder, said that her caseload increased tremendously after 9/11, and people she hadn't seen in 10 years were coming back into her practice. So I think it's safe to say that collectively as a nation, because of what happened on September 11th, we experienced trauma.
[Frances Shure, M.A., Licensed Professional Counselor] I'm Fran Shure, and I have a bachelors degree from the University of Colorado. I've had a private practice as a psychotherapist and as a licensed professional counselor for about 20 years. Why do people resist this information, the information that shows that the official story about 9/11 cannot be true? What I've learned is that as humans, each of us has a worldview. And that worldview is usually formed, in great part, by the culture we grow up in. When we hear information that contradicts our worldviews, social psychologists call the resulting insecurity "cognitive dissonance." For example, with 9/11, we have one cognition which is what the official story of 9/11, what our government told us, what our media repeated to us, over and over, that 19 Muslims attacked us. On the other hand, we have what scientists, researchers, architects, and engineers are now beginning to tell us, which is that there is evidence that shows that the official story cannot be true. So now we've lost our sense of security. We are starting to feel vulnerable. Now we're confused.
[Robert Hopper, Ph.D., Licensed Clinical Psychologist] 9/11 Truth challenges some of our most fundamental beliefs about our government, and about our country. When your beliefs are challenged, or when two beliefs are inconsistent, cognitive dissonance is created. 9/11 Truth challenges the beliefs that our country protects us and keeps us safe, and that America is the good guy. My name is Bob Hopper, and I have a Ph.D. in clinical psychology from the University of Cincinnati. For the past 29 years, I've been a licensed Ph.D. clinical psychologist in Boulder, Colorado. When your beliefs are challenged, fear and anxiety are created. In response to that, our psychological defenses kick in, and they protect us from these emotions. Denial, which is probably the most primitive psychological defense, is the one most likely to kick in when our beliefs are challenged.
[Danielle Duperet, Ph.D.] I'm Danielle Duperet, Ph.D. I'm originally from Switzerland where I studied psychology and psychoanalysis. For the past 15 years I've been empowering people who have experienced significant trauma. America is a powerful nation. It has never been attacked. We were confident; we felt secure; and all of a sudden that security collapsed. People started to be fearful with all those rumors, those news. People didn't know what to think about. And it's a very, very uncomfortable state to be in. And eventually our mind shuts off, just like when a computer is overloaded, our minds get overloaded. We can't handle it anymore and we shut down. It's easier to deny it and move on with our lives.
[Frances Shure, M.A., Licensed Professional Counselor] What some of us will tend to do is deny the evidence that's coming our way, and stick to the original story, the official story, and try to regain our equilibrium in that way. Another thing we can do is decide to look at the conflicting evidence, and be sincere and be open-minded, and look at both sides of the issue, and then make up our own mind about what reality is.
[Dorothy Lorig, M.A.] I'm Dorothy Lorig. I have a masters degree in counseling psychology from the University of Colorado. And I've been practicing reevaluation counseling for over 16 years. If we can think of our worldview as being sort of our mental and emotional home, I think most of us would do about anything to defend our homes, and defend our families. And so I see that with people. And I saw that with myself when my brother tried to talk with me about it of, "Don't mess with me; don't mess with my home; don't mess with my comfort with how things are." About a week later I read a lengthy article by Professor Griffin about why he believes the official account of 9/11 cannot be true, and it was a very well-researched article, and I was in my office at the time. And I sat there and I felt my stomach churning. I thought maybe I was going to be sick. And I leaped out of my chair and ran out the door and took a long walk around the block -- around several blocks -- and just broke down. I understand now that what was happening was my worldview about my government being in some way my protector, almost like a parent, had been dashed, and it was like being cast out into the wilderness, I think that is the closest way to describe that feeling. And I sobbed and I sobbed. I felt like the ground had completely disappeared beneath my feet. And I knew at some point during the walk that I was going to have to become active in educating other people about this, that for me to retain any sense of integrity, I was going to have to take some action. I couldn't just let something like this go.
[Robert Hopper, Ph.D., Licensed Clinical Psychologist] Many people respond to these truths in a very deep way. Some have a visceral reaction like they've been punched in the stomach. To begin to accept the possibility that the government was involved, is like opening Pandora's box. If you open the lid, and peek in a little bit, it's going to challenge some of your fundamental beliefs about the world.
[Frances Shure, M.A., Licensed Professional Counselor] Here are some of those spontaneous initial reactions to hearing the contradictory evidence about 9/11:
[Robert Hopper, Ph.D., Licensed Clinical Psychologist] "I don't want to know the truth or I'd become too negative and psychologically go downhill." "I'm not sure I want to know. If this is true, then up would be down and down would be up. My life would never be the same."
[Frances Shure, M.A., Licensed Professional Counselor] "Fran, I refuse to believe that that many Americans could be that treasonous. Someone would have talked." But these are beliefs; they are not scientific facts. But these beliefs do keep us from looking at the empirical evidence.
[David Ray Griffin, Ph.D., Professor/Author] I'm David Ray Griffin. I taught philosophy of religion and theology at the Claremont School of Theology, and Claremont Graduate University. I published about 35 books in my field. But then, starting in 2004, I started publishing about 9/11, and since that time I have published 10 books about 9/11. You have empirical people who will simply say, "Look at the evidence, and if it's convincing, I will change my mind." Other people are paradigmatic people. They have a paradigm. They say, "This is the way the world works, and I'm convinced this is the right way the world works. 9/11 doesn't fit into that paradigm. So I don't need to look at the evidence. It's paradigmatic." And then there's a third type of person that we often call "wishful thinkers." I call it "wishful and fearful thinking." So they simply will not believe something that they fear to be the truth. And I have found that maybe to be the most powerful factor of people rejecting the 9/11 truth, and not even entertaining the evidence.
[Frances Shure, M.A., Licensed Professional Counselor] So whenever we say, "I refuse to believe," we can be sure that the evidence that's coming our way is not bearable, and that it's conflicting with our worldview much too much.
[Robert Hopper, Ph.D., Licensed Clinical Psychologist] Denial protects people from this kind of anxiety.
[Frances Shure, M.A., Licensed Professional Counselor] As I thought about all of these responses, I realized that what is common to every one of them is the emotion of fear. People are afraid of being ostracized; they're afraid of being alienated; they're afraid of being shunned; they're afraid of their lives being inconvenienced; they'd have to change their lives; they're afraid of being confused; they're afraid of psychological deterioration; they're afraid of feeling helpless and vulnerable; and they're afraid they won't be able to handle the feelings that are coming up. And none of us want to feel helpless and vulnerable, so we want to defend ourselves. And the way we often do that is with anger. So then we become angry. And when we become angry, then we become indignant; we become offended; we want to ridicule the messenger; we want to pathologize the messenger; and we want to censor the messenger.
[Robert Hopper, Ph.D., Licensed Clinical Psychologist] So how can we overcome this resistance and denial? The first thing is to meet people where they're at.
[John Freedom, M.A., Personal Development Counselor] One thing is we need to raise people's awareness about this through what I would call "gentle dialogue," and "gentle questioning." My name is John Freedom. I'm a counselor in private practice here in Tucson, Arizona, which I've been in for the past 20 years. I hold a masters level certification in NLP, which is neurolinguistic programming. So it doesn't work to challenge people's belief, or immediately tell them, "I know the truth about 9/11." But a good way is to ask questions, ask open-ended questions, and lead them into a dialogue and discussion about it.
[William Woodward, Ph.D., M.A. - Experimental Psychology] Healing comes through facing the truth, experiencing it, allowing the feelings to come in so that if there are feelings of fear that perhaps these events were caused by something we haven't thought about yet, dark elements within our society, for example, we let that come in and explore it. Let the light shine on whatever happened. This will be the most healing process. The Germans did this after their war. The South Africans did this after apartheid. Reconciliation through the truth is a deep path to psychological recovery from the myths and lies around which this historic event has been cloaked in the official view. I am Professor William Woodward. I'm trained in the history of science with a Ph.D. I also have a masters in experimental psychology. I have edited four books, and published well over 20 peer-reviewed papers. I've taught for 35 years at a state university, the University of New Hampshire. I think, as a psychologist, to overcome our fear of the traumatic event with new information would be the best, healthiest route to our collective recovery from the trauma of 9/11. That, by the way, is a psychotherapeutic insight that to gradually uncover the truth in your own life, the sources of anxiety, to make them conscious, is the royal road to recovery.
[Danielle Duperet, Ph.D.] One of the ways to deal with a trauma is to find the answers. That's why I think it is of such importance to have a comprehensive investigation.
[William Woodward, Ph.D., M.A. - Experimental Psychology] To work together to expose what happened, regardless of where the evidence takes us -- that's what we expect in our state government, and law enforcement. I think that by putting science together with the law, we'll have a psychological healing around the impossible cognitions that had been produced on that day.
[Robert Griffin, Licensed Psychologist] I believe that to be the kind of country that we think we are, we have to face some of the things that are not as we think they are. I am Robert Griffin. I am a licensed psychologist practicing in Pennsylvania for 25 years. I am a member of Psychologists for Social Responsibility. And I am past president of the Northeastern Pennsylvania Psychological Association. After World War II, part of the way that Jewish people honored the dead was by making sure that the truth was known, and that the value of these people was respected. Not pursuing the truth about 9/11 disrespects the value of the lives of the people that died. Thinking that we're above such things, that it could happen in other countries but it couldn't happen here -- that's a lack of humility. And that's excessive pride. And so not being able to see our dark side, or our weaknesses, is the most dangerous thing.
[David Ray Griffin, Ph.D., Professor/Author] The observation that pride is one of the basic human flaws, is absolutely correct. This is especially true for Americans because we, for a long time, looked at other nations and said, "Oh, they're in such bad shape, but luckily we don't have those problems. We don't have leaders who would do those things that were done in the Soviet Union, or done in Germany, or done in Japan," and on down the list. So this is a type of pride that Americans have. A feature of American history that makes us particularly liable to this pride is this notion of, it's called "exceptionalism," that America is the "exceptional" nation. And that began from the beginning as this country was formed. The people would say, "Well, there was so much evil in the European countries, so much cheating, so much lying, so much using the people for the rulers' purposes, but not in America. We have leaders who are free from those sins." So I think this has made 9/11 particularly difficult for Americans.
[Robert Griffin, Licensed Psychologist] Anyone can make mistakes, but our ideals and our principles get us back on track.
[John Freedom, M.A., Personal Development Counselor] This is one of the defining issues of our time.
[Robert Griffin, Licensed Psychologist] So we need to understand that questioning is patriotic. Questioning is what we're supposed to do as citizens. That's our duty.
[Frances Shure, M.A., Licensed Professional Counselor] When we come to the national level, when something like 9/11 happens, we need to be sure that we have a real investigation into who the perpetrators are. And then we need to be sure that those perpetrators are held legally accountable. It's part of the healing process on the individual level, as on the collective level. We need the truth in order to heal. |
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Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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EXPLOSIVE Evidence Cont'd and Finished
Seeking Understanding
9/11: Too Close to Home
[Richard Gage, AIA] Ten years later, the deep wounds from 9/11 have yet to heal. Nothing hits closer to home than the loss that these family members continue to endure, along with the torment of their unanswered questions.
[Bob McIlvaine, Lost Son, Bobby on 9/11] My name's Bob McIlvaine. I'm from right outside the Philadelphia area. And I'm the father of Bobby McIlvaine, who was killed in the lobby of the North Tower on September 11, 2001. But I've been searching to get the truth of exactly what happened to Bobby. And Bobby is a very interesting story. Bobby was one of the first ten bodies found. We took him home that week. Well, I finally found the doctor who examined him. He gave me an outline of a body, and he described all the injuries he had. But the fact is, that all his injuries were in the face, the front of his face: his face was blown off; massive cuts in his chest, and his right arm were blown off. To me, that means explosion.
[Michelle Little, Lost brother David M. Weiss, FDNY on 9/11] My brother was my best friend. David has always been a firefighter. My brother went in to save people's lives. I'm a family member trying to find out the answers to the murder of 3,000 plus people.
[Jane Pollicino, Lost husband Steve, on 9/11] I'm Jane Pollicino. My husband Steve was 48 years old when he was killed on September 11th. I have no identification. Why is that? And you're sort of left with all these question marks, which is harder to deal with than the pain of losing somebody in that way. It seems to me we should know why over 1,000 victims there are no trace for, and no identification -- no trace of over 1,000 victims.
[Michelle Little, Lost brother David M. Weiss, FDNY on 9/11] Just a few years ago they were still finding body parts on the roofs of buildings. What is that?
[Jane Pollicino, Lost husband Steve, on 9/11] We should know why there are over 700 bone fragments found on the top of Deutsche Bank Building less than 1/2 inch long. We should have that information. Why were they up there? Why weren't they found? What kind of explosion was there?
[Bob McIlvaine, Lost Son, Bobby on 9/11] And the explosions were brought up many times, talking to firemen, talking to medics, talking to everyone -- everybody talked about these explosions.
[Jane Pollicino, Lost husband Steve, on 9/11] I want the officials that are in power to ask the questions. I want answers. We never had answers. Nobody ever stopped to have a scientific investigation.
[Bob McIlvaine, Lost Son, Bobby on 9/11] Please look at Architects & Engineers. People all around the world, scientists all around the world, are questioning this, that these towers could not have come down. But when you bring science into the equation, that's so important. Because you can't argue against science. And there's some deep, deep explaining to do.
[Michelle Little, Lost brother David M. Weiss, FDNY on 9/11] The bottom line is that it needs to be investigated properly.
[Richard Gage, AIA] The forensic evidence that you've seen is very real. New light has been shown. A third beam now reaches into the pitch-black sky, and stands in for the still officially unexplained freefall destruction of the World Trade Center Building Seven. The obvious dark truth about Building Seven may very well provide the key to justice for the victims of the destruction of the Twin Towers.
[Jane Pollicino, Lost husband Steve, on 9/11] The country owns this. We're all victims. We all should want answers. It's not just ours; it's not just mine; we all lost something that day.
9/11: EXPLOSIVE Evidence
Experts Speak Out
Executive Producer
Richard Gage, AIA
Video Team Leader
Charles Ewing Smith
Produced and Edited by
Francis Battaglia
Michael Green
Martin McGee
Charles Ewing Smith
Scripted and Edited by
Richard Gage, AIA
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Tara Carreon Veteran

Joined: 25 Sep 2008 Posts: 988
Location: Tucson, Arizona
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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Small companion plane to Rumsfeld's doomsday plane at Shanksville before the so-called "crash" of Flight 93?
| Eyewitness to Shanksville Crash wrote: | Eyewitness to Shanksville Crash -- It Was Not a 757
Moments before the crash of UA 93, Susan McIlwain saw a small aircraft fly over her car in the direction of the crash site.
[Susan McIlwaine, Eyewitness, 1/2 mile from crash] You know, I was just driving along here. It was a beautiful day. I had my window open, had the stereo on, and when I got up here almost to the stop sign, this small white plane -- at the time that's what I thought it was -- went over top of me, it was so smooth, and it just glided right over me, just like that. And then I ducked, and when I looked up again, then it was the spoiler, which is what I call it, and it was tipped like this so I could really see the spoiler, and it just banked to the right and went over and went down behind these trees. We got to watching it on TV, and they kept saying it was a large plane, like a 757. And I was like, "No." What I saw was no [inaudible] jet. You know, that would have blown me off the road if it went over me, you know, that close. And I said, "No, that wasn't it." So, like I said, about 11:30 that night, the FBI came, wanted to talk to me, they kept asking me how big the plane was, and I said, "the plane, you know, it was small, wasn't much bigger than my van, that I saw, and it went over top of me, and he says, "Tsk ... you don't know what a 757 looks like." And I said, "You know, don't be condescending to me. You know, if you don't want to believe me, that's fine, but what I saw, I thought I should report, and you ought to know there was something else in the air at the same time this was going on, and you want to make sure that maybe it was ours and not somebody else's. And then that's when he did seem to get a little nicer. He told me that this white lear jet, someone was taking pictures. I said, "Before the crash?" And he says, "Well, we've gotta go." And that was the end of it.
[Unidentified reporter] In my mind, you know, the possibility that Flight 93 was shot down, is an incredible story. But on the other hand, I think, in the minds of a lot of media people, TV producers, etcetera, the story that emerged instead of heroism by the passengers is a remarkable story, you know, certainly it's been the basis for two best-selling books so far. You know, it was featured on Dateline, NBC, and some of these other news magazine shows, several times over. You know, I'm sure, and I hate to be so crass referring to September 11th, but I'm sure the ratings for those shows, I'm sure those were some of the most watched news magazine shows of the year.
And so then, I think as a journalist, you know, unfortunately, it's kind of sad, but I think there's an instinct of, "We have a great story here. Why would we want to like muck around and mess it up by coming up with a different story when people love this story?"
"Let's Roll!, by Lisa Beamer
[Bobby Erbach, UA 93 Memorial, Shanksville, PA] That's the book from Todd's wife Lisa. I haven't finished it yet, but there's a lot of information in here, especially the "Let's Roll" part that's from the phone call that she got, Lisa got from her husband before he crashed, and all she heard was the "Let's roll," and it was silence, just like the heavens were talking to her.
[Man] This is the role the government plays in times of stress, how they view the public. Can the public stand the truth? We need a legend at this point. We need a really neat story of reacting against the dastardly act that was happening. So it's really nice and convenient to think of the Beamer story, "Let's Roll." And that becomes just like the Alamo. And it's just one of those legends. And I'm not saying that somebody's issued an order somewhere saying, "Don't do anymore with 93; it's right where it oughta be; leave it alone" -- I don't think that's true, but I think there's be a lot of pressure to let the legend stay where it is. I would think there's some inclination that way. |
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Tara Carreon Veteran

Joined: 25 Sep 2008 Posts: 988
Location: Tucson, Arizona
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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Rumsfeld's doomsday plane at the White House before the Pentagon is struck.
| CNN wrote: | CNN BREAKING NEWS
The White House Has Been Evacuated
Aired September 11, 2001 - 09:52 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
We also have a report now that it was a plane that crashed into the Pentagon, and we have a large fire at the Pentagon. The Pentagon is being evacuated as we speak now. The White House had been evacuated as well.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: CNN's John King joins us on the phone. John?
JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESP.: Aaron, I'm standing in Lafayette Park, directly across the White House, perhaps about 200 yards away from the White House residence itself. The Secret Service has pushed most people all the way back to the other side of the park. I'm trying to avoid having that done to me at the moment.
Just moments ago they started slowing evacuating the White House about 30 minutes ago. Then, in the last five minute people have come running out of the White House and the old executive office building, which is the office building right directly across from the White House.
About 10 minutes ago, there was a white jet circling overhead. Now, you generally don't see planes in the area over the White House. That is restricted air space. No reason to believe that this jet was there for any nefarious purposes, but the Secret Service was very concerned, pointing up at the jet in the sky.
It is out of sight now, best we can tell. They've evacuated the entire White House staff and the old executive office, as well as some townhouses that are government offices. Many of our viewers might know Blair House, where other international leaders say when they are in Washington. That block of townhouses has been evacuated as well. They are pushing us now back towards 8th Street, which is the next main street to the north from Pennsylvania Avenue, across from the White House.
BROWN: John, hang on one second. We are getting reports that the Capitol, the Treasury building also being evacuated.
John, is this evacuation from the White House, was it orderly? Did it seem panicky? How would you characterize it?
KING: It started off as orderly, much like we get when there are ocassional bomb scares near the White House. But then, again in the last 10 minutes or so, the people who came out -- the last several hundred I saw leaving the grounds, were told and ordered by the Secret Service to run. They were running through the gates. These were of course professionals in business suits.
I'm also told that prior to that, and we don't know the current situation that the vice president and other administration officials on the scene very meeting in the White House situation room, which is in the basement of the White House. Whether they have stayed on the complex or not is unknown to us at this moment.
I spoke to an administration official shortly after the president delivered his statement. He said obviously the operating assumption here is terrorism. The initial assumption, this official said, was that this had something to do, or at least they were looking into any possible connection with Osama Bin Laden. The administration recently released a warning that they thought Osama Bin Laden might strike out against U.S. targets.
BROWN: Just to add at bit, John, to what you've been saying. We're getting a report from the Associated Press now that the White House was evacuated after the Secret Service received what the AP is describing as a credible threat of a terrorist attack against the White House itself. I expect you'll be checking that out. We'll try and confirm that. But that is what AP is reporting right now.
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Tara Carreon Veteran

Joined: 25 Sep 2008 Posts: 988
Location: Tucson, Arizona
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:22 am Post subject: |
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Many white planes at Shanksville.
| Investigate911.info wrote: | Shanksville Witnesses to Flight 93 "Shoot-down"
The FBI's later explanation for the white jet was that a passing civilian Fairchild Falcon 20 jet was asked to descend from 34,000 ft to 5,000 ft some minutes after the crash to give co-ordinates for the site. The plane and pilot have never been produced or identified. Susan Mcelwain says a Falcon 20 was not the plane she saw.
The FBI insists there was no military plane in the area but at 9:22 a.m. a sonic boom -- caused by a supersonic jet -- was picked up by an earthquake monitor in southern Pennsylvania, 60 miles away from Shanksville.
2) Lee Purbaugh: There was another plane," Lee said. "I didn't get a good look but it was white and it circled the area about twice and then it flew off over the horizon."
3) Tom Spinelli: "I saw the white plane," "It was flying around all over the place like it was looking for something. I saw it before and after the crash."
4) Dennis Decker, 5) Rick Chaney: About a mile north on Buckstown Road, Dennis Decker and Rick Chaney were at work making wooden pallets when they heard an explosion and came ... running outside to watch a large mushroom cloud spreading over the ridge. "As soon as we looked up, we saw a midsized jet flying low and fast," Decker said. "It appeared to make a loop or part of a circle, and then it turned fast and headed out." Decker and Chaney described the plane as a Lear-jet type, with engines mounted near the tail and painted white with no identifying markings. "If you were here to see it, you'd have no doubt," Decker said. "It was a jet plane, and it had to be flying real close when that 757 went down. If I was the FBI, I'd find out who was driving that plane."
6) Robin Doppstadt: Robin Doppstadt was working inside her family food-and-supply store when she heard the crash. When she went outside, she said, she saw a small white jet that looked like it was making a single circle over the crash site. "Then it climbed very quickly and took off. "
7) Dale Browning who witnessed the white plane, "the damndest darn thing", remarked: "Everybody's seen this thing in the sky, but no one can tell us what it is."
8 ) Jim Brant: Mr. Brant and two of his employees arrived at the site in minutes , hoping to help survivors. He said he noticed a white plane, perhaps a jet, circling the wreckage. "It reminded me of a fighter jet," he said. He said it stayed there for one or two minutes before leaving. "The plane had no markings on it, either civilian or military."
9) John Feegle: "It didn't look like a commercial plane," Feegle said. "It had a real goofy tail on it, like a high tail. It circled around, and it was gone." "The aircraft appeared to have an unusually tall vertical stabilizer."
THE PHILADELPHIA DAILY NEWS:
10) Kathy Blades and her son ran outside after the crash and saw the jet, with sleek back wings and an angled cockpit, race overhead. |
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