HOW I GOT INTO SCIENTOLOGY AND WHY I GOT OUT -- ILLUSTRATED INTERVIEW WITH JASON BEGHE
And just looking at those celebrities, you sell a little piece of your soul when you tell that lie. But you've got it all justified that, "It's good people; and it's for the Church; and I'm helping the group." And da da da. But I'm telling you, you know that you're full of it a little bit. And you know if you really look at it, it's okay. And in any other universe, if that came up in session, it would be an overt.
But not there. I mean, this whole hard sale thing, and what they do to recruit. Shit. Actors are one thing. What about the little children they get into the Sea organization with billion year contracts?
Q. What's your reaction to the Sea Org and the way that Sea Org members are treated, as opposed to the celebrity clientele? Are you aware of some of the things that happen to Sea Org members?
A. Again, I've heard things. And they seem quite plausible. I've never seen anybody be abused. I've seen people kind of screamed at. But I've never seen that kind of abuse. Let's say you hear my story. And I got out, and I've got some sad tales. Maybe I got ripped off for a good chunk of money, and this, that, and the other thing. If you look at that as compared to somebody who joins the Sea Org, it's not even comparable.
Can you imagine what it would be like to have a person at your beck and call and complete disposal? Your slave who not only was a slave by force, but you've got them by the mind -- not the balls -- you've got them by the mind. So they're in love with you, devoted to you, to do whatever you want for their entire lifetime. So they're working, let's say, a person working 100 hours probably is what the average Sea Org person works per week. I'd say about 80-100 hours a week. What's minimum wage on that? I mean, it's not even minimum wage shit. They build the buildings. They do everything. High tech stuff. It's worth at least $75,000 per year. And then you get that for 50 years, or 40 years, because they get them when they're teenagers. And they've also hired a dentist who takes care of their teeth. They've also hired all these kind of things as part of their organization. What is that? That's just millions and millions of dollars worth of free labor. Plus, their whole life. And what do they get in exchange? They believe that they are saving this sector of the galaxy. And that's enough for them. And they are the few people who have the ethical fortitude to make that kind of a commitment.
Q. What's your reaction to the RPF?
A. Those are the rules of the game. But to me, it is more of a way to control. People end up there if they are -- I would think -- to some degree they feel they are getting out of control. And so what do you do? You put more control over them, until you get them back in control. And whether that's physical abuse or mental abuse or both, it's what it is.
Q. When you were in, did you know the ins and outs of RPF, where families would be split up, and people couldn't communicate for months or even years?
A. No. They don't talk about that much. When I was in a little bit longer, and spent more time at the upper organizations, like Gold, I would hear about things like that, and find out. But they try to keep that stuff away from everybody, especially celebrities. Because the company line is that the Sea Org is made up of OTs. It's a group of OTs. So for these people to fail is saying OTs are failing. And it's kind of like a one shot Clear joining the Sea Organization. And you have the EPF, which is the precursor, where you get ready. And when you're finally posted in the Sea Org, the end phenomena of the EPF, which is called the Estates Project Force, which is basically where you run around and do a lot of physical labor and take a couple of courses, the end phenomena of that is supposed to be an OT.
Which is interesting to me. I've many times blown my stack when I had to get in touch with somebody at Flag. I always had to call the president. And of course, they've got a new person answering the telephone at Flag. And Scientology touts itself as the cutting edge in communication, whereas they have somebody answering the fucking phone who does not speak English. However, they ARE an OT. They happen to be an OT from Poland, who is now 14 years old, and is now the main receptionist for an international fucking hotel.
And you call and say, "What the fuck is wrong with this person?" "Well, they're posted, and they should be there." You've got to get that job done. And if their stats are down, I'm sure they're back on the RPF if they hadn't learned to speak English quick enough. And that's not an exaggeration. Insanity.
Q. So you didn't know that much about what was going on in the RPF?
A. No, I learned some things online, but --
Q. How are you as public kept away from the en theta that's going on in the real world? I mean, if there's some really negative story about Scientology in the paper or on TV, are you aware of that?
A. It's a funny thing. Like I remember my wife had seen Ted Koppel interview David Miscavige. And she thought that he kind of fucked up. He certainly wasn't very OT. And she talked to Susan Watson, who was the president of CC, and Susan was like, it's almost like gaslighting somebody. Do you know that expression? Kind of make them seem like, "Are you crazy? He was just doing a toadscale joke, because you know Ted Koppel." To just "not is" the thing. I think it is called dead agenting. I had a similar experience just seeing Tom Cruise acting a little bit in a way that could distress a lot of people. And they make it into like, "This is the greatest thing. No, this is good. People just can't handle his level of enthusiasm." And it's like, "Okay! So that's the company line."
Q. Even now, with the release of the Tom Cruise tape, and global attention to this, they are trying to spin it as a positive, that all these people are coming to our site, and learning about Scientology, and joining, whereas the rest of the world is saying, "Tom Cruise is nuts."
A. Well, that's the thing, though. In their own little world, it makes sense. That is a Scientologist talking to Scientologists. That's Tom Cruise sitting there -- I've done these kind of videos, being interviewed -- knowing that his audience is going to be made up completely of Scientologists, and his job is to get some fire under their asses so they can jump out and start behaving more like him. And that's basically what it is in their universe. I think that's an unedited tape, but that's basically him. I mean, I've been around the guy. I twinned on him in some courses. When I was getting auditing from Marty Rathbun, we were on turnabout for a month and a half. It was like Tom would go in, and then I would go in, Tom would go in, and I would go in. So I spent a little bit of time with him. And that's him.
You know, he's a very focused guy. That's what I see. I mean, this guy is not a namby pamby panty waste. He's a totally dedicated person. I can't call him a friend, or say I know him, but I can tell you that's who he is. So if it seems crazy, that's interesting. That seems like the ideal to most Scientologists, and that's an interesting comment. Because they showed that as a "Come on, babies. Get off your asses! Don't you want to be like Tom?" And it's interesting that the rest of the world, who are not caught up in that Truman Show --
they see it as "What's wrong with this guy?" It's crazy.
Q. It looks very much to an outsider as though your reality is stripped away and replaced with Scientology's reality.
A. That's what I saw. I watched a little of that Tom Cruise interview, and I'd seen it before then. I went to that event. It was an IS event where he won the Freedom Medal. There's some part in there where he says, "You know, as a Scientologist, you can't pass that accident, because you know you're the only person who can do something about it." And he does know that. And to me, that's part of what I'm finding is destructive in terms of a religion that pulls people apart. Whereas to them it seems like, "No, he's really helping people." So you could say that. But he's also putting himself above it. He's a Homo Novus. He's somewhat condescending. He knows he's going to heaven. And I find that very worrisome.
It really is. I don't think it bodes well for the planetary community when you have people sectifying into these groups that think they are the only way out. It starts to look crazy. I think that's where war comes from.
Q. You mentioned having done some of those videos like Cruise. You've done a lot of Scientology --
A. Let me tell you something. Like the main recruiting film for the Sea Organization, I spent well over a year doing that up at Gold with David Miscavige, and he and I and one other guy on the final day, because we had to finish it for Sea Org Day. So if you ever get recruited to join the Sea Org, that will be me talking. Unless they hear this. Maybe they'll take me off, but "We live in a world gone mad where pain and strife create war and human suffering. A world rife with drugs." Yeah. It starts like that. It's very serious. And it's all about the Sea Organization, and how it was formed, and blah blah blah. So apparently, it's working. That's what I've heard, what they told me. But their stats never go down.
The last thing I did before I left, I don't know what the hell they were calling it, but it was this big public push. They were going to put these videos in every org, so when new public walk in, they can learn what is CCR, what is the volunteer ministers. What is --
I must have done 10 or 12 of these things. And that's my voice, too. Shit.
Then the technology of Scientology is learning how to Clear people, and bring them to higher states of spiritual freedom. And that takes a lot of learning. You have to go to course. And part of the course is technical films where they tell a story -- they're all written by L. Ron Hubbard, and some are even directed by him -- but I'm in, Jesus, shit, plenty of them.
Q. Do they have to purge you now?
A. I don't know if they'll purge me. You know, there was a girl who had left and they kept her. I mean, they re-did the film finally. There are some of them that will take a while to re-do. I mean, they take forever to make a film anyway. Shit, I did a little half hour film for them and it took months.
My experience personally is that Scientology is destructive and a rip-off, and that it's very, very dangerous for your spiritual, psychological, mental, emotional health, and evolution. I think it stunts your evolution.
LIVING UP TO A BILLION YEAR CONTRACT -- THE SEA ORG
And joining the Sea Org is the greatest commitment to that. And it requires the greatest amount of commitment from that individual. You know, there's a different standard for a new public, for a Scientology public, an OT public, and then above that is a Sea Org member.
And what is required and expected is far beyond. And so the degree to which you have to be completely devoted, and again, in my perception, the more devoted you are, the more brainwashed you are. The less you are yourself, the more you are just a Scientologist. When I said earlier you become "Jason Beghe the Scientologist," "Jason Beghe the Sea Org Member" would be further gone than "Jason Beghe the Scientologist." And I hear about some of these hard core top execs that are now leaving -- these were heavy duty in the Sea Org 25 years who made it to the top -- I would imagine that, to use your word, the decompression for them could be in danger of the bends. I mean, that's some heavy shit to get that far in.
Right now I'm just getting an inkling. Like one of the big, big concepts in Scientology is overts, which is sins you've committed. These are naughty things you've done. These are your peccadillos. These are your big big awful secrets that you would never tell anybody. These are some mistakes you made. They can all add up to overts. I'm beginning to get a concept, and maybe part of the reason why I'm doing this is to try and make up the damage for some of the people I've influenced getting into Scientology, because I feel BAAADDDD!
I feel that was BAAADDDD! That maybe somebody would look to me and say, "Hey, he's cool." Or "He's no fool." Whatever the hell they say. And that makes me feel BAAADDDD! You know that Sea Org slideshow, COB told me that it's gotten a whole bunch of people into Sea Org. It's working like gang busters. So you ask me if I fully really face that without flinching? It would be a tough pill to swallow. I mean, that's some heavy shit. If I really look at that, I mean, that's taking people's lives away.
That's enslaving somebody's mind. And when I was talking about the levels of ethics where somebody doesn't even know they are out of ethics, shit, baby, we're talking about people who don't even know that they're enslaved. That's a hard fucking thing. I mean, they can create their own reality where they will show up when they are 21 next lifetime and come back. That's fucking feasible. I'm talking about brainwashed.
I don't know how far it goes, but it ain't a joke.